- Transcription
BADIN, NORTH CAROLINA.
INVESTIGATION OF CHARGES MADE AGAINST THE
TALLASSEE POWER COMPANY.
By W. E. Brock, Solicitor.
Office of General Superintendent.
The statements of the following witnesses are taken at this investigation for the purpose of determining whether or not the charges made against the Tallassee Power Company and certain of its employees are correct, the charges having been made to the Governor of the State of North Carolina by D. L. Goble, who is, therefore, the first witness whose statement is desired.
STATEMENT OF D. L. GOBLE.
Q. Mr. Goble where do you live?
A. Dallas, Texas, is what I call my home.
Q. What is your business?
A. International Organizer for the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. Here is my card.
Q. I have your card - I am merely asking for the purpose of getting it in the record.
A. My headquarters are at Springfield, Illinois. I am also International Organizer for the American Federation of Labor.
Q. When did you come to Badin?
A. About the 17th of June, I think - it was the 16th or 17th.
Q. Why did you come?
A. On instructions from my international secretary to organize a local union of electrical workers who had made application for a charter some weeks before.
Q. Whom did you first see when you arrived?
A. Regarding this organization?
Q. Regarding anything - whom did you first see?
A. Well, I had my letter - my instructions from the office - instructed me to get in touch with Mr. Bowers.
Q. What initials?
A. J. P.
Q. Did you undertake to do so?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you find him?
A. No sir, he was out of town.
Q. Whom did you see then?
A. Mr. Ragan.
Q. What did you next do?
A. How I come to meet him I was inquiring of a gentleman on the street - I don't remember whether it was a police officer or not - some gentleman on the street, if they knew where I could find Mr. Bowers, and he happened to be passing and says 'I know him,' and he happened to overhear me ask for him and he says 'I know him,' and I went with him and then he told me that Mr. Bowers was out of town, and then I met - that is how I come to meet Mr. Ragan - and the next man I met that evening I think was Mr. R. L. Johnson.
Q. What did you do then?
A. I told them my business here - what I came to do and that I was instructed to see Mr. Bowers - by the way, I did meet Mr. Bowers brother later on, he has a brother I think in the insurance business and I met him if I recollect aright. Well anyway, and then he said that there was a message for me at Mr. Bells' store and I went on up there and got the message that Mr. Bowers had left there and I could reach him at Winston-Salem, and I wired him there and my telegram was reported 'non-delivery,' and then I learned he was at High Point and I wired there and my telegram was delivered but not answered. Now I don't remember meeting any of the other electrical men. I may have met them casually but in meeting so many just in passing did'nt impress them on my mind.
Q. What did you do next?
A. I asked the men how soon we could have a meeting and they said just as soon as I desired it. I told them I would like to have a meeting on Friday night and asked about a meeting place, a hall to meet --
Q. Whom did you ask?
A. Mr. Ragan and Mr. Johnson and two or three others.
Q. Which Mr. Ragan?
A. John. I don't remember whether I talked to Tom about it or not. I was told that there was no meeting hall in Badin and the only place was on the top floor of the theater and that was occupied every night and impossible to get that - and I says 'We have got to have some place to meet,' and then somebody says something about this hotel down here, and a gentleman spoke up and says - he runs a little racqueststore out there - his name is Rat ----- something. Well, anyway, he says 'My son is here with me and maybe we can find a place up town,' and we tried around and could'nt get any place and he says - I had my wife with me and was trying to fin a place to stay and I had heard about this hotel down here - that it was'nt a very good place - and this man says 'Well we will go out here to a place I know of' and we went out to this hotel and got in there for the night. It was'nt a very desirable place ----
Q. Well, just before you leave there, did you have a meeting that night?
A. No sir. I looked out there first and then came up town and met these men after I had had my supper. The next day - that was not a desirable place - not very clean and no screens or anything - and I came up town and I asked Mr. John Ragan if he knew where I could get a furnished room, and he says 'I have a room'---------
Q. Did you get a room from Ragan?
A. I did. I got a room from Ragan and stayed there until last Saturday, a week ago, until I went to Albemarle.
Q. You say you did'nt have a meeting? did you later have a meetin?
A. Not until Friday night following - on the 21st I think it was, or the 20th.
Q. Where did you meet that night?
A. They told me we might get a room in this hotel.
Q. You secured a room where?
A. At this Piedmont Hotel.
Q. What occurred at your meeting?
A. Well, there was quite a crowd; I don't know the number and the men who were there paid up the balance of their initiation fee and were instructed along the principles of organized labor - what the organization was and the principles of the American Federation of Labor and a temporary financial secretary was elected to take care of the fees until the final organization meeting and election of officers which was to be held on the following Monday night.
Q. Now what took place at the meeting other than your meeting there? did anything unusual occur?
A. After the meeting was over and I had finished paying the man for the hall, I came outside and Mr. Thorpe and two or three other gentlemen were there and several police officers, and Mr. Thrope and I had quite a little conversation. Mr. Thorpe ----
Q. Well, now, the main point I want to know is - was any assault or demonstration of violence used toward you?
A. Absolutely none. Some pretty strong language by Mr. Thorpe.
Q No indication of assualt?
A. Nothing whatever. Nothing like that occurred. In fact nobody said a word but Mr. Thorpe and myself.
Q. You all held a conversation relative to your organization?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now then, there was no demonstration of violence made by Mr. Thorpe or the police officers or the other gentlemen?
A. Nothing whatever.
Q. No threats?
A. No sir.
Q. You then went on back to your room that night?
A. Yes sir, I want to say this: Mr. Thorpe raised a very strong objection to meeting at that place - that it did'nt have a very savory reputation and that I should have come to him and asked for a meeting place, and so on, and I told him that I did'nt know anything about him when the meeting was called and I told him we would be meeting again Monday night and would be glad to meet in a building up town, and he says 'No sir, you can't have any building up town' and I told him we would meet again there Monday night but we did'nt.
Q. Did you meet again?
A. Yes sir
Q. Between the night of Friday and Monday night of your next meeting - between these two dates, what did you do and what information did you secure?
A. I would like to have that list. The only thing I did was to meet the men who wanted to talk to me - they would meet me and wanted to talk about the organization, what it meant, etc., and to talk about joining, and I would talk to them just like any man would, explaining to those who wanted to learn something about it.
Q. Between the time - between the meeting on Friday night and Monday night - were you living in Badin then?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Between those time was any demonstration of force used, any attempts made to assault you by anybody?
A. Absolutely nothing. I was treated with the utmost courtesy by the officers, and I remarked that at the meeting that night - the courteous treatment I had received at the hands of everybody.
Q. Now then, you had your next meeting on Monday night?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Where did you meet that night?
A. Well, this Piedmont Hotel is on the right hand side of the road going out and I should judge about two hundred yards from that on the left hand side is a little two-story, yellow building, the manager of the Piedmont Hotel sent me word that we could'nt meet there that night and we secured this little yellow building.
Q. At your meeting Monday night what happened?
A. Nothing out of the ordinary, that I know of.
Q. Did you see anybody there on Monday night who was attempting to make any assault or threats to intimidate anybody?
A. No sir.
Q. Was your meeting disturbed?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you remember the date that you wrote to the Governor?
A. No sir, I have a copy and I intended to bring it along but I forgot it.
Q. Have you a copy of the letter the Governor wrote you?
A. I don't know whether I have it with me or not. I had the things I intended to bring along with the list on the dresser and a man came upstairs and said they were waiting for me in Badin ----
Q. When did you write the Governor? Immediately after your meeting on Friday night or after your meeting on Monday night?
A. I don't remember - it was either before the meeting on Monday night or on Tuesday. I can't recollect.
Q. You either wrote him between your meeting on Friday night and your meeting on Monday night or you wrote him on Tuesday after your Monday night meeting?
A. I think it was on Monday or Tuesday night.
Q. In that letter you suggested to the Governor that there were certain outrages being committed and you received a reply from him. You say that at your meeting on Friday night there was no of any assault made upon you, no threats, that between your meeting on Friday night and your meeting on Monday night the treatment by the officers had been entirely courteous and that you were not disturbed on Monday night - now the thing I am most interested in in this particular investigation is to find out what particular outrages were committed after you complained to the Governor - also I would like to have a detailed statement - first I would like to correct that part of the statement you have just made with regard to the conversation with Mr. Thorpe - that is the exception I make - did you have any conversation with him between the dates of your meeting on Friday night and your meeting on Monday night?
A. No sir.
Q. And no indication of attempts to make assault or threats?
A. No sir. Now I don't know that I used the word 'outrages' in my letter to the Governor. I would like to produce that letter - I don't know just exactly the words that I used.
Q. The reason I used the word outrages is because of the language in the Governor's letter, which reads as follows: 'Complaint has been made to me that the Tallassee Power Company has committed outrages against its employees at Badin,' - that is the reason I used theword outrages. I presume that information was given him by you?
A. I may have used a different word - I don't remember just the word and that is the reason I would like to produce my copy of the letter.
Q. Have you had any communication with the Governor other than your letter to him?
A. I received a reply to my letter which stated that he would give it his immediate attention in a short time, and in a few days he wrote me again and enclosed a copy of Mr. Thorpe's letter but it was all in the papers before I got it.
Q. You mean a copy of the letter he had written to Mr. Thorpe?
A. Yes sir, but that was published before I got it.
Q. Now have you had any communication with the Governor outside of that letter, Mr. Goble?
A. A personal interview at Raleigh last Saturday about 11:30 - not Raleigh, Winston-Salem.
Q. I presume the Governor went from Winston-Salem to Mt. Airy?
A. From Mt. Airy to Winston-Salem; he spoke there on the fourth and met us on the 5th.
Q. Mr. Goble I wish you would look over this notice and see if they are correct in quoting your letter to the Governor there? (Copy of letter published in the Raleigh News and Observer).
A. That seems to be correct. I would like to introduce my copy of the letter.
Q. I will put this in the form of a question and you can then consult your copy of the letter Mr. Goble, if you have a copy, and this reads as follows: 'There are a number of outrages that have been committed against the employees-----------etc.'
A. That is just about what my letter reads as well as I can think of it.
Q. Now this was on Tuesday - or between Friday and Monday night or Tuesday morning?
A. Yes sir, right in there.
Q. Now then, what outrages did you have reference to?
A. Just as outlined to you there in that paper.
Q. Who gave you the information about the treatment of colored employees and what was that information?
A. Well, I don't recall - it came to me from so many sources.
Q. I notice in this statement that you have made you have down here the name of Mr. Stepps - what information did he give you?
A. He did'nt give me any; his name was given as one who knew.
Q. Who gave you his name?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't know whether it is correct or not? They just told you he knew?
A. Yes sir. I don't know that any of that is true; I don't know anything of my own knowledge.
Q. Did you get this information that you have here - I will read it - 'Mr. Steps, familiar with treatment of colored employees, Mr. Bowers, 807 Green Street, High Point, N.C., familiar with laborer being struck with iron rod, J. W. Britt, familiar with white boy being beat up by officer Ferris, see white man by name of Sullivan, Mr. Maynars, familiar with number of cruelties, Mr. Price, attorney, Albemarle, familiar with mistreatment of employees, Mr. H. P. Jourdan, struck on head with pick axe handle and knocked down steps at Narrows Power house by foreman Holliday and $100 promised injured party to forgive and forget?' When did you get this information Mr. Goble, was this prior to the time you wrote the Governor or afterwards?
A. I would say most of it previous - I can't be positive.
Q. At the time - I wish you would take this statement and look over it and see which of these particular offenses were reported to you prior to the time you addressed that paragraph in your letter to the Governor, and if so, who reported them. I want the name of the man who reported the cases?
A. I can't tell you. I can't remember when they were reported to me. I did'nt keep any dates and the reports were coming from so many directions and sources.
Q. Well the point I was making was this: what I am trying to find out in this investigation is if these reports - when these reports were made to you, and whether or not they were made before anything was said about discharging them if they belonged to the union? that is what I want to find out?
A. They were made after the discharge of the men.
Q. Were they discharged prior to writing your letter or afterward?
A. Prior.
Q. What day were they discharged on?
A. On the 23rd, I think, on Monday.
Q. And you had your meeting on Monday night. Did they give you this information on Monday night?
A. Possibly some of them did.
Q. Was any of it given you by any man who was discharged?
A. As I told you I don't remember Mr. Brock who these people were.
Q. What I want is to get the men who reported them? Look at this list and see?
A. I can't recall.
Q. Do you remember who gave you the information about that first item?
A. No sir, I don't. Now Mr. Bowers gave me the information that he was familiar with laborer being struck with iron rod.
Q. Did he tell you any of the details? if so, I would like to have them. Now I want all the information you have.
A. Well I would'nt like to quote Mr. Bowers because I might misquote him.
Q. Well, give me the substance of what he said.
A. This is the substance: A man was struck with an iron rod ---
Q. For what cause?
A. I don't know; I did'nt ask him. A foreman - I did'nt ask who he was and I did'nt ask who the laborer was or anything about it.
Q. Did you ask whether or not the laborer was making an assault?
A. No sir, because I did'nt quiz him at all.
Q. The reason I am asking you this - you understand I am trying to get the facts and I can't try people on hearsay. Where is Bowers?
A. At 807 East Green Street, High Point.
Q. What are his initials?
A. J. P.
Q. When did he give you this information?
A. Sunday, I believe it was.
Q. This was last Sunday?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Was he down here Sunday?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Well now, take up the next item Mr. Goble - what is the next one?
A. J. W. Britt, familiar with white boy being beat up by officer Ferris.
Q. Tell me what Britt told you about that?
A. If I remember correctly - he just said this white boy was beaten up.
Q. Did he tell you any of the details?
A. No sir, he might have went on and elaborated but there has been much I can't begin to memorize it.
Q. The substance is all I want. I am trying to get information upon which to subpoena witnesses. When did you get that information?
A. I don't remember the date.
Q. Now take up the next case?
A. Mr. Maynar is familiar with number of cases of cruelties.
Q. Who is Mr. Maynar? is he the jailer at Albemarle?
A. Yes sir, I believe he is.
Q. Did he tell you about what any of them were?
A. I never saw him at all.
Q. Who told you?
A. A number of people - a dozen.
Q. If you will just name one or two?
A. I did'nt try to memorize these notes; their evidence was'nt taken.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Mr. Price, Attorney, Albemarle, familiar with mistreatment of employees.
Q. Well, tell me what Mr. Price said about it?
A. I have never met him.
Q. Who told you he was familiar with these things?
A. I don't remember.
Q. What is the next item, Mr. Goble?
A. H. P. Jourdan struck on head with pick axe handle and knocked down steps at Narrows Power House by Foreman Holliday and $100 promised injured party to forgive and forget. See D. Davis, W. H. Bradford, J. L. Adkins, John Page.
Q. When did you get that information, Mr. Goble?
A. As I told you, I can't tell you just when I got the information. Since the Governor wrote me that he was going to make an investigation of the matter and I took it for granted that inasmuch as I called it to his attention he would ------
Q. At the time you wrote him were you familiar with these things?
A. Not all of them. No sir.
Q. You did'nt know about the man being knocked down at the Narrows?
A. No sir.
Q. Now take up the next item?
A. See Captain Alman, Kings Mountain, N.C., former railroad conductor, about forcible return of colored employees.
Q. Have you see the conductor yourself?
A. No sir.
Q. Who told you about him? probably I can get up with that man.
A. I can't recall who it was; I would be glad to give you the information.
Q. Have you any notes in your files that would indicate where you got this information?
A. No sir.
Q. you don't know then who gave you the information here?
A. No sir.
Q. In order to get that information it would be necessary to get that witness from Kings Mountain?
A. Yes sir, so far as I know.
Q. What is the next item?
A. See J. P. Ragan.
Q. Where is he?
A. Bridgewater, N.C., now.
Q. See him about what?
A. Shooting of negro employee; now he told me about that.
Q. What did he say?
A. He said that - as near as I can remember -
Q. Just give the substance?
A. He said he was standing somewhere down the street and he saw a negro coming along with a hole in his side and some man by the side of him remarked 'There goes that negro that the officer just shot,' and that is as much as I can remember.
Q. Did he tell you when this occurred?
A. If he did I don't remember.
Q. You don't know whether it has been more than six months or five years?
A. I can't say that but it was'nt a very old occurrence. I asked him when it was and he said he did'nt remember the date.
Q. When did you see him?
A. I don't remember the date.
Q. Did he give you any deatils of the shooting?
A. No sir, that is all he seen of it.
Q. You don't know whether he was an escaped convict or what?
A. He was walking along, I think, towards the hospital.
Q. Did he give you any information as to who you could see as to who could give us any testimony that would be competent to use in court?
A. No sir, because I expected him to be here.
Q. He just knew a negro was shot and did'nt know the trouble or the cause or did'nt tell you?
A. No sir.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Also about white man being killed in gear of conveyor belt.
Q. Who gave you the information about that?
A. Mr. Ragan.
Q. Which one?
A. John.
Q. Did he tell you how that happened?
A. He told me how it was told to him.
Q. Did he tell you who it was?
A. Yes sir, he said one of the foremen of the plant who was standing near the conveyor switch.
Q. Did he tell you how it occurred?
A. No sir, only the man got caught up in there.
Q. Did he cahrge that the employees of the Company put him in there?
A. No sir, he said he had notified the company - there ought to have been a guard there, it seems it was near a passage way, but the guard had been taken off and he had notified the company in writing about this guard being off and to put one on - that was negligence on the part of the company not having a guard there.
Q. Was this one of the things that you had in mind at the time you wrote the Governor?
A. No, that would'nt be considered an outrage.
Q. What is the next item? was anything said about an inquest being held or not?
A. Yes sir, said an inquest was held and as he understood the verdict the man came to his death by his own carelessness.
Q. That was the coroner's inquest?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What is the next?
A. Also another electrocuted by 1440 volt current.
Q. Who told you about that?
A. Mr. Ragan.
Q. Did he tell you where that was?
A. In the plant.
Q. Tell you how it occurred?
A. No, he said the man was leaning around to throw the switch and got his arms crossed or something and killed him.
Q. Did he charge anybody with forcing him on there?
A. No, the only thing was a similar verdict - killed by his own carelessness.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Foreman of pot room chasing negro with iron rod.
Q. Who gave you that information?
A. Mr. Ragan.
Q. Did he tell you what the trouble was?
A/ As he learned it the darkey had refused to work or do something and he took out after him and run him all over the yard and finally caught him.
Q. Did he say he hit him?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What became of the negro - did he go back to work?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When was this?
A. Idon't remember the date.
Q. You don't know whether recently or more than two years ago?
A. No sir.
Q. That was J. P. Ragan?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What is the next item?
A. The forcible retention of negro prostitutes.
Q. Who gave you that information?
A. Mr. Ragan.
Q. When did he say that occurred?
A. He did'nt say just when.
Q. When did he give you this information?
A. All along together - I don't remember the date.
Q. Do you remember the approximate date of this information - whether it was while Ragan was living here or since he moved away?
A. While he was living here.
Q. Was he at work at that time?
A. No sir, he had been discharged.
Q. Do you know why he had been discharged?
A. Only what he told me and that was the notice posted in the plant that men who affiliated or joined the union would be discharged and said that was the reason of his discharge.
Q. Did he tell you who gave the information about this particular case - retaining these negro prostitutes?
A. This one particular case you want me to tell?
Q. Yes.
A. He said that he was down near the station and he saw a negro woman coming toward the station with a suit case and an officer walked out and asked where she was going and she said she was going away and he told her she was'nt going anywhere and took her grip and told her to go back to the house and she says 'I am not going to live here any more,' and he - this is not a verbatim statement - that the officer told her she was'nt going away and taken her suit case and told her to go back home and if she left there would'nt be any keeping Shorty there and said she came on back to the camp and stayed there.
Q. You don't know whether she was Shorty's wife or not?
A. no sir.
Q. Did he tell you whether she was his wife or not?
A. No sir. It came to me from some source that negroes were dispossed and forced to leave without making any disposition of their household goods or furniture; possibly we can find that out by referring to the furniture dealers of Badin.
Q. Do you know why they were forced to leave?
A. No sir, I don't know why they were forced to leave.
Q. You don't know whether they declined to work?
A. No sir. In one particular case on one evening there was some eight, possible nine, negroes came out to where we were meeting and asked for me and said they wanted to talk to me about organizing and wanted to organize a labor union, and I said 'Well, I will give you what information I have,' and they stepped inside of the building, it was'nt quite dark, and I instructed them along the original methods of organizing and so on, and they left, and some young man who did'nt belong to our organization came in and said the police officers had caught these darkies just this side of the building and put them in front of the automobile and brought them into town, and then I was told that these negroes had been sent out of town the next morning. I aslo was told that they had been told that one negro had about $150 in his home and he was not permitted to dispose of any of it - just sent right out of town - that was four of them.
Q. Have you got the name of the man who knows about that?
A. I did'nt learn his name.
Q. You don't know whether that is so or not?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you talked to the furniture men?
A. No sir.
Q. You don't recollect who gave you this information?
No sir. I hope you gentlemen will understand my position. I don't come as a prosecutor, but only at the instance of the Governor - when I learned that he was going to make an investigation I thought he would likely call upon me to in a manner substantiate what I intimated in my letter and I thought it was my duty to do so and I went in search of this information. These cases came voluntarily.
Q. When did you get that information?
A. On one of our meeting nights. Seems to me about last Tuesday night or Thursday night - about Tuesday night a week ago. I am not sure.
Q. Well, as I understand it, at the time you wrote the Governor you did'nt have this information about these various details?
A. Not all of them.
Q. Go on to the next item?
A. See Bob Robinson, colored, regarding cruelty of officers toward colored employees in hotel and homes in order to force them to work, also locking them in their homes after a certain hour of the night endangering their lives in case of fire. Tom Manous can also give information along this line.
Q. Who told you about that Mr. Ragan?
A. Mr. Bxxxxx told me about Robinson's having this information.
Q. Have you talked to Bob Robinson?
A. No sir.
Q. When was this information given - do you recall?
A. Yesterday, I think.
Q. Who is Mr. B --- ?
A. He is a former employee.
Q. Where is he now?
A. In Albemarle.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Ed Biddix said to have boasted of the fact that he never fired a negro for refusing to work but beat him up.
Q. Who gave you that information?
A. I can't recollect.
Q. Do you remember when you secured it?
A. Right recently I think, within the last day or two.
Q. Who is Biddix?
A. I understood him to be a foreman.
Q. Did you get the names of the ones that could probably give any information about that?
A. No sir, it seems to me like Mr. Tom Ragan gave me that information.
Q. When did you get that information?
A. Yesterday.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Reported that officer Mabry shot colored employee, by the name of Big Will.
Q. Who reported that to you?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did they tell you why he shot him?
A. No sir.
Q. Did they tell you whether he killed him or not?
A. No sir.
Q. They did'nt tell you whether he had been tried or not?
A. No sir.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Mr. G. C. Scott, foreman brush machines reported to have been cruel to colored employees.
Q. Have'nt you any information where I could get the witness about that?
A. The only direct testimony I presume would be the employees working for Mr. Scott.
Q. Did they tell you who they were?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you recall where you got that information?
A. No sir.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Reported that officer permitted negro to beat wife with ax handle without interfering.
Q. Who gave you that information?
A. Mr. Ragan.
Q When did he say that occurred?
A. He did'nt say.
Q. When did he give you that information?
A. Yesterday.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Mr. Spencer, foreman coke crusher reported to have knocked negro down three time with sledge hammer handle and threatened to kill if employee came out of car before same was unloaded, see Tom Ragan.
Q. When did he say it occurred?
A. He reported it yesterday.
Q. When did he say this occurred?
A. I did'nt ask him.
Q. You don't know whether it was more than two years ago or not?
A. I did'nt ask him when it was.
Q. What is the next item?
A. Henry Britton, colored truck driver for Mr. Brock, Badin, who can give information on Foreman Biddix and Young beating employees.
Q. Who gave you the information about that?
A. I don't know.
Q. Have'nt you any record of it - that would indicate who gave you that information so that I could get hold of them some way?
A. No sir, I have not. I simply made a note like I have here.
Q. What is the next time?
A. Also about Junk Frank, and 10 or 12 others being penalized to the extent of one or more shifts in pot rom for gambling.
Q. Who did they say gave you that?
A. Henry Bruton.
Q. What is the next item?
A. See Phil Diggs who was seriously injured by three white men in pot room and received 3 to 5 hundred dollars, men sent to Marysville.
Q. Do you know who they were?
A. No sir.
Q. Who gave you that information?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you remember when you got that?
A. Right recently.
Q. What is the next, Mr. Goble?
A. See Chrisco and J. P. Ragan about employee being knocked down three times in baking department of carbon plant.
Q. You don't know what Chrisco that is?
A. No sir.
Q. Who gave you the information in order that I may see them?
A. I don't know; I can't recall. Tom Ragan gave me the information that his brother saw it.
Q. Now, Mr. Goble, that list, I believe, contains all the specific items that have been reported to you?
A. Yes sir, I think so.
Q. Now is there anything else you would like to say in connection with it?
A. No, I have nothing to say and don't know anything about it; whether there is any truth in it or not. I did'nt have time to verify any of it. I think I have been here since the 16th or 17th of June, I have not been in the plant or about it and have only talked to such people as I had business with.
Q. How long has this man Ragan been gone?
A. He left Friday.
Q. What kind of work had he been doing?
A. He was foreman, electrical foreman.
Q. Do you know why he left?
A. He said he was discharged because he joined the union?
Q. Did he give you this information after he was discharged?
A. I really can't say positively; in some instances the information came to me before the first Friday night meeting.
Q. Do you recall who gave you any at that time?
A. No sir, because I just passed it on, thinking there would be nothing more to it. I was simply here to organize
Q. If there are any more cases of violence or violation of the law that you have heard about to which you had reference at the time you wrote the Governor that you remember now I wish you would state it?
A. No sir, if I should have heard it and not made a note I would'nt trust my memory. When the Governor wrote me that he was going to make an investigation I thought I would be called on.
Q. One other question I believe I will ask you - you don't recall how many of those violations of the law or other cases that you have set forth in that statement were reported to you prior to your letter to the Governor?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you any idea?
A. No sir, I have not.
Q. Quite a number have been reported since that time?
A. Yes sir, and in some instances I would get a report on the same case from maybe a haf dozen people, and I would make only one note.
Q. And you have no notes to give you this information so that I can get hold of them?
A. Only what I have here.
Q. I believe, Mr. Goble, that you have already stated that the only violence, or unpleasantness, that occurred was your argument with Mr. Thorpe?
A. That is all.
Q. No threats were made by anybody?
A. No sir.
Q. Did he make any to you at that time?
A. Well, no more than he said if it had'nt been for the regard he had for his boys that he would have raided the meeting out there.
Q. Now this report about the officer's hitting the negro, was that Monday night? at the Monday night meeting?
A. I think it was reported on Tuesday?
Q. One of your men told you?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now the report that they were put in front of an automobile and brought into town was given by whom?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did he see it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. The man that told you?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You don't know who it was?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you recall where it was that he told you?
A. Out there at the meeting place.
Q. Was it in the meeting?
A. No sir, we had adjourned and were coming out.
Q. So that is as far as you got any information about that particular transaction?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What I would like to have is the name of the man who saw that. Now, Mr. Goble, if there is any further statement that you desire to make in connection with this entire proceeding, I want you to take this opportunity to do so; any violence offered you or any reports you may have heard I want to have in the record.
A. I have no other information of violence or anything of that kind. I would like to make this statement - so far as our membership is concerned that I have not heard of them being bothered, or threatened, or anything of that kind, myself included. I have seen no violence attempted or anything that appeared that would likely be violent unless it was the first night out there.
Q. That was the discussion between you and Mr. Thorpe?
A. Yes sir, he looked like it would'nt have taken very much to have started something.
Q. You did'nt have any difficulty?
A. No sir.
Q. And you now state that no member who has joined your organization, including yourself, has been either threatened, treated badly, or had any violence offered them?
A. Nothing whatever, to my knowledge.
Question by Mr. Goble to Mr. Brock:
I want to ask you if you have heard of any tar and feather party being prepared for me?
Answer by Mr. Brock:
No sir, I have not.
STATEMENT OF MR. TOM RAGAN.
Q. What are your initials, Mr. Ragan?
A. T. O.
Q. How old are you?
A. Twenty-eight.
Q. Where were you raised?
A. I was born in Fayetteville.
Q. Where is your home now?
A. I have'nt any.
Q. Where is your place of business at this time?
A. I am not working at all.
Q. What do you call your headquarters?
A. My wife is at Bridgewater.
Q. What county is that in?
A. I don't know.
Q. Now you seem to have made a report to Mr. Goble about one Biddix - some assault that he has made on somebody - I wish you would tell us all about that?
A. I don't know what assault that was; what I was talking to him about I told him that he was talking to me one day and he said it was'nt necessary to fire a negro - that the best way was to take a stick to him and he would do better work; that was the instance that I mentioned.
Q. Did he say that he had beaten up any?
A. No, he did'nt say.
Q. Did he say he had ever beaten any?
A. He did'nt say whether he had or not.
Q. When did he tell you?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You can't give me that information?
A. No.
Q. Is there any other information that you have?
A. In regards to the Spencer matter.
Q. Who was he?
A. He was a foreman.
Q. All right, tell about him?
A. Well, my brother and I had been in the pump room working on the pump, and as we came out we saw a negro running this way ---
Q. Do you know who it was?
A. No sir, I don't.
Q. When was this - any time recently?
A. I think it was during this year or maybe before Christmas - about seven months ago. He was running this way and he was right behind him and had a sledge hammer handle and knocked the negro down and the negro got up on his hands and knees and he he knocked him down again and knocked him down three times.
Q. That was Spencer knocked him down?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know what his first name was?
A. No sir.
Q. He was foreman in what place?
A. Coke crusher, and I think he unloaded the coke.
Q. You don't know what the name of the negro was?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know where he is now?
A. No sir, I would'nt have known him fifteen minutes afterwards anyhow.
Q. What became of him?
A. He taken him on back and put him to work.
Q. Well is that all that happened?
A. Is it necessary for me to use the words he used? He said 'You damned son of a bitch come on back and unload that car and if you get off there before it is unloaded I will kill you.'
Q. Do you know what started the difficulty?
A. I understood the negro did'nt want to unload and was going to quit, and said he was going to the foreman to get his time.
Q. You don't know whether that negro is here now or not?
A. No sir.
Q. Before we go any further - was there anybody else there who saw that?
A. Yes sir, but I don't know who they were.
Q. You don't know who any of them were?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know of any other assaults?
A. The one about the negro beating up a colored woman - she was'nt his wife - and the policeman sitting in the door watching him.
Q. When was that?
A. In the summer time.
Q. Which summer?
A. This past summer. I don't know just exactly what time it was.
Q. What policeman was it?
A. I don't know sir.
Q. The negro lived there in the house - he and this woman together?
A. He had a little out house and he told her to go out there and sweep it and and she said she would'nt do it, and he had a piece of axe handle and knocked her down two or three times and cut her hands.
Q. Did you try to stop it?
A. No sir, it was'nt none of my business, policeman sitting right there.
Q. Do you know what the negro's name was?
A. 'Big Boy' is all I know.
Q. Is he here yet?
A. I understand he is.
Q. That was last summer?
A. Yes sir. I understand that he had to take this woman the following day and marry her.
Q. Do you know her name?
A. They call her 'Ada.'
Q. That is all the information you have Mr. Ragan? do you know anything further?
A. No sir, not that I really saw.
Q. These three are all you know?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now I believe Mr. Goble said that you gave him some information about what your brother could say - I wish you would tell us about that? J. P. Ragan is your brother?
A. Yes sir.
Q. About the shooting of a negro employee. What do you know about that?
A. I don't know anything about what he saw. Someone told him.
Q. You don't know whether he saw it or not?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Goble that he knew about it?
A. I guess I told him about it. This negro who drives the bus between Albemarle and Badin told me about it today. Told me the reason that the officer shot him was the negro came down to go to work and said it was too hot to work, and as he started on out him and the officer had some words and he started running and the officer shot him.
Q. Did he kill him?
A. No sir.
Q. What officer was that?
A. Mabry, I think.
Q. When was that?
A. I don't know sir.
Q. Have you any idea whether it was more than two years ago?
A. Less than that; I would'nt say over three months ago.
Q. That was Mabry? do you know who the negro was he shot?
A. Big Will. In regards to making them work extra shifts for gambling, Ed Miller, the negro who runs the hospital, he told me he worked a shift Saturday night.
Q. What for?
A. Gambling.
Q. What kind of gambling did he say they were doing?
A. I believe he said he was playing 'skin.'
Q. Did he tell you who was playing with him?
A. He said about nine others.
Q. And he was made to work an extra shift for punishment?
A. Yes sir, he does'nt work in the pot room at all - Miller don't.
Q. He stays at the hospital?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did he have to work a shift too?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Are you certain that he admitted to you that he was gambling with nine others?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did he tell you when that was?
A. Saturday night.
Q. He worked in the pot room for gambling?
A. Yes sir.
Q. He was'nt indicted.
A. I guess not.
Q. How long is a shift?
A. Eight hours. He said he had rather be fined and pay ten dollars than to work that shift.
Q. Anything else, Mr. Ragan?
A. No, I guess not, with the exception he told me a little something about that Phill Diggs - Briggs - getting knocked in the head.
Q. When did he say that happened?
A. That was - he did'nt say. I don't remember the time; I remember when it happened.
Q. Do you remember how long ago it has been?
A. Probably six months. I remember hearing about it and about the negro being in the hospital.
Q. You don't know whether they were fighting or not?
A. No sir.
Q. Did'nt give you any details or further evidence?
A. No sir.
Q. Is he still here, Phill Diggs?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Ed Miller told you this?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Is he still here?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Is there anything else?
A. That is all.
Q. Have you any information that anybody else as given you?
A. In regards to the treatment of the negroes, when I first came here I heard there used to be a negro killed here about every day - I don't remember who told me. And there was somebody else told me you occasionally heard of a negro being beat up by a foreman.
Q. When did you come here, Mr. Ragan?
A. I came here February was a year ago.
Q. What kind of work did you do?
A. Electrical work.
Q. How long have you been away?
A. Since the Monday I was discharged, and came back Saturday.
Q. When did you give Mr. Goble this information?
A. Yesterday or today.
Q. Yesterday or this morning? Speaking of Biddix, did he ever tell you of any particular time he beat anybody up? Did he ever tell you that he beat anybody up?
A. No sir, he just said that was the best way to get a negro to work.
Q. Has any assault been attempted on you, Mr. Ragan?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you been mistreated in any way since you joined the union?
A. No sir.
Q. No threaths made against you?
A. No sir.
Q. Anything else you desire to say?
A. No sir.
Q. Any further explanation that you can make here in your statement that will throw any light on the situation?
A. No sir, not that I know of.
Q. Why did you come back Mr. Ragan?
A. I came back mostly to see my brother.
Q. Is he here?
A. No sir, he had gone.
Q. When did he get here?
A. He left here Friday morning.
Q. Have you been to Bridgewater?
A. Not since about a week ago.
Q. You came to see your brother?
A. Yes sir.
STATEMENT OF BOB ROBINSON, COLORED.
Q. Bob, you have given out some information here about the cruelty of the officers here toward the colored employees in hotels and homes in order to force them to work - also that they lock them in the homes after a certain hour of the night - what about that?
A. Somebody's been misrepresenting me; I never gave that.
Q. Do you know anything about the officers beating up anybody?
A. I been here about five years and ani't nobody beat me.
Q. Probably you kept out of the way. You have told somebody about this?
A. I ain't told nobody; nosir.
Q. Did you ever talk to Mr. Gunter?
A. I don't know him; no white man in the world ever questioned me.
Q. Do they lock them up at night?
A. No sir, I does all the locking up.
Q. Do you lock up your hotel?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know about the officers locking up anybody?
A. No sir, unless they violates the law and they take them over to Albemarle to the County jail. We ain't got nowhere to lock anybody up.
Q. Don't they lock them up in the homes, in the houses around here?
A. No sir.
Q. They don't? You mean to tell me the police officers don't go around and lock up the houses?
A. The colored lock theeirselves up if there is any locking.
Q. The officers don't lock them?
A. No sir, the officers don't care anything about whether they're locked up or not.
Q. Don't they beat them up over here?
A. No sir.
Q. They say they have been beating them up?
A. No sir, I ain't never told nobody.
Q. Did you ever see them beating up anybody?
A. No sir, everybody getting along just as nice as they can get along.
Q. You don't know anything about it?
A. No sir, don't know anything about it; getting along just as nice as they can.
Q. Do you know Mr. Tom Manous?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did'nt you tell him that they beat them and locked them up at night.
A. No sir, I did'nt tell him anything. He has been on the police force himself. He ain't beat nobody up.
Q. How many do you board?
A. I have sometimes hundred and fifty.
Q. Did you ever see them raided and run out?
A. No sir.
Q. Well now, Bob, I want you to give me the facts?
A. I give 'em to you, Boss, just as straight as I can.
Q. You say you handle about a hundred and fifty or two hundred?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do they take them and make the work extra shifts at night for gambling?
A. I don't know anything about that but they generally doubles to to make all the money they can.
Q. You don't know a thing about it?
A. I don't know a thing about that part of it; I know everything that goes on in the camp.
(Ed Biddix was called in but being one of the witnesses against whom a charge was made no examination was had.)
STATEMENT OF W. H. BRADFORD.
Q. What are your initials Mr. Bradford?
A. W. H.
Q. Mr. Bradford I have some information that you know a man by the name of Holliday, a foreman over at the Narrows Power House - do you know Holliday?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know H. P. Jourdan?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When was it that Holliday struck Jourdan over the head with the pick axe handle?
A. It was last fall; along right about Christmas.
Q. This year?
A. I think it was sometime in the last year.
Q. I wish you would tell me about what happened?
A. I was down at the power house at the time and the fellows were coming down to relieve us and the only thing I know as Jourdan came down the steps with blood all over his head.
Q. Who was he?
A. A fellow working there.
Q. White man?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You did'nt see what happened?
A. No sir.
Q. Did Jourdan tell you what occurred? tell you anything about it?
A. He told that Holliday hit him.
Q. Did'nt tell you anything about what it was about? did'nt say why he hit him?
A. No sir.
Q. Did'nt tell you whether they were fighting or not?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever hear him say anything about it after that?
A. No sir, we brought him over to the hospital.
Q. Did he go back to work?
A. No sir, he was off for some time.
Q. Do you know what ever happened about that?
A. No sir, I don't.
Q. Is he at work now?
A. No sir.
Q. Where is he?
A. Running a five and ten cent store.
Q. You don't know what the trouble was about?
A. No sir.
Q. Tell what you heard and who told you Mr. Bradford?
A. A fellow Truesdale told me that Holliday's wife had been talking about Jourdan not being at work, said he was lying up there playing off sick at the boarding house, and Jourdan went down there and got after Holliday about it.
Q. Jourdan was down there having an argument with Holliday's wife and he hit him while he was arguing?
A. No sir, he hit him when he came to work.
Q. Did he insult Holliday's wife?
A. No, I never heard that.
Q. He got after her about telling he was'nt at work?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Told her it was'nt so?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Jourdan went down and told Holliday his wife was lying?
A. I guess so.
Q. Is that all you know about it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know who gave you that information?
A. I can't say; it was talked among the power house fellows.
Q. That is all you know? He hit him after he told Holliday his wife was lying? I don't blame him.
STATEMENT OF J. L. ADKINS.
Q. What are your initials?
A. J. L.
Q. Mr. Adkins you are familiar with the difficulty between this man Holliday who was foreman at the Narrows Power House and H. P. Jourdan at the time he was struck on the head?
A. I was down there working when it happened.
Q. Tell us what was the cause of the trouble?
A. Really I don't know the cause because I did'nt hear it.
Q. What did you hear?
A. I heard Holliday and Jourdan.
Q. What did they say?
A. Mr. Holldiay cursed him - he was saying something about his wife, I don't know just what it was; I couldn't hear. Something about his wife.
Q. What did Jourdan say about it?
A. Said he jumped on him and beat him with a stick.
Q. Did he say why?
A. Said he claimed he cursed his wife.
Q. Did Jourdan say he had any conversation with Holliday's wife?
A. No sir, I don't remember.
Q. He did'nt deny that he had been talking to her?
A. No sir.
Q. Was he very badly injured?
A. He looked like it; bloodied up.
Q. Was Mr. Holliday in the habit of knocking people down with sticks?
A. That is the first time I ever knew of.
Q. Has he knocked anybody down since?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. He said he did that because Jourdan had insulted his wife?
A. Cursed his wife.
Q. How did Holliday settle with him?
A. I don't know whether it has been settled or not.
Q. Do you know whether he was ever indicted?
A. I don't think so; not to my knowledge.
Q. You don't know whether Jourdan ever had him indicted?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Is there a Justice of the Peace down here anywhere? a magistrate?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. You don't know whether they paid him anything or not? whether Holliday paid him anything? Have you heard whether anything was paid him?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What did you hear?
A. He paid him $50.00.
Q. Holliday paid Jourdan $50?
A. Yes sir.
Q. He agreed not to prosecute him for $50?
A. Well, no, he was to pay $50 then and fifty more; that is pay him ten dollars a month.
Q. For five months? that would be $50?
A. I guess that would be it.
Q. That is the way they agreed to settle it?
A. Said that was what Mr. Gomo (?) told them to do.
Q. Who was Mr. Gomo?
A. Superintendent of the plant.
Q. Do you know what he had to do with the settlement?
A. He was there when it was made; that is when Jourdan got the $50; I don't know about its being settled.
Q. Where is Gomo now?
A. I think he is at the plant.
Q. When did this occur, Mr. Adkins?
A. I don't remember; sometime ago.
Q. Has it been a year?
A. I don't think not over five or six months.
Q. Was it last year or this year?
A. I don't remember.
STATEMENT OF JOHN PAGE
Q. Mr. Page what are your initials?
A. J. R.
Q. Mr. Page you were familiar with the circumstances connected with the fight between Holliday and J. P. Jourdan at the time Jourdan got knocked in the head?
A. I saw a little of that, but not enough to know anything about it. I saw Jourdan after it was over.
Q. What was Jourdan doing?
A. All I saw, he had a gash on the side of his head and I helped him out to the steps until the operators carried him on in.
Q. What was the difficulty about?
A. I don't know, I never heard. No more than Dad told me -----
Q. Who was Dad? was that Holliday?
A. Yes, we call him Dad told me Jourdan had been cursing his wife is all I know.
Q. Did you hear Jourdan say anything about it?
A. No, I did'nt.
Q. Have the settled the case?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know about his getting some money from Holliday?
A. I don't.
Q. That is all you know about it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did Jourdan go back to work?
A. Yes sir, he worked some after that; some little time.
STATEMENT OF H. P. JOURDAN.
Q. Your initials are H. P?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When was it that you had some difficulty with Mr. Holliday, the foreman over here at the Narrows Power House?
A. I don't remember the exact date; some time about November the best of my recollection.
Q. Last year?
A. Yes sir.
Q. I wish you would tell us what occurred?
A. Well I was coming to work and when I came in and started across toward the phone and he said - he walked in front of me and said his wife said I cursed her and I said 'No, let me explain that, how it was,' and he did'nt give me time to explain before he hit me.
Q. He told you his wife said you cursed her?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Had you had a conversation with his wife about anything?
A. Yes sir. She had been saying something about me and I went to her and told her that I had heard she had been talking about me and I was tired of it and she had to stop and she went to him and told him more than I said, I suppose, and then he hit with some kind of a stick.
Q. Knock you down?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What has been done about the case?
A. We compromised it and stopped it.
Q. You compromised?
A. Yes, promised not to push it.
Q. What were the terms?
A. He was to pay me $100.
Q. And you agreed not to prosecute?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you know at the time that it was a violation of the law for you to compromise a criminal case?
A. No sir.
Q. Why did'nt you go swear out a warrant and let him be punished?
A. I was advised to do this way.
Q. He did'nt try to force you to settle it?
A. O no, said it would be so much trouble to the Company to take all the witnesses away and he advised me to stop it the easiest way.
Q. And you agreed to see that it was'nt prosecuted if he paid you a hundred dollars?
A. Yes sir, he only paid me fifty.
Q. When did you first bring up this subject, this last time?
A. I have never mentioned it to him since.
Q. Have you told anybody else?
A. Not that I have any recollection of.
Q. Made any complaint?
A. Only to Mr. Beers; told him he promised to settle and had not paid it.
Q. That was about the fifty dollars?
A. Yes sir.
Q. So far as you were concerned you wanted the $100?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And rather have one hundred dollars than to see the law administered?
A. I just did it at Mr. Gomo's instructions; he advised me to do it
Q. Have you ever gotten your $50?
A. No sir.
Q. The way to do is to swear out a warrant and not be settling criminal cases for money.
A. He advised me to do it.
Q. He said it would take the operatives away from their work?
A. Yes sir, and advised me to do it.
Q. Did you ever make any complaint to any officer about it?
A. No sir.
Q. So you were satisfied whether the law was administered or not so you got your $100?
A. Yes sir, I was going by his instructions.
Q. How old are you?
A. Thirty-four.
Q. Where were you raised?
A. In South Carolina.
Q. What place?
A. Chesterfield.
Q. Chesterfield Courthouse?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Who is your father?
A. Peter Jourdan.
Q. Who came to you about settline the case?
A. Mr. Gomo.
Q. What did he tell you?
A. I think it was the same evening I wqas hurt and he asked me what was I going to do and I told him 'Prosecute,' and he said I ought to take his advice and not do it and said it would bother the Company so, would take the hands away, and I was in his employ and I flet like I ought to do what he said.
Q. Have you been employed by him recently?
A. No sir, not in the last two or three months.
Q. Who paid the money over to you?
A. Mr. Holliday himself.
Q. Did he ever say anything about how much he was going to pay you?
A. Not after that day; he was to pay me $50.00.
Q. Have you had any other conversations with him?
A. None at all.
Q. Had an conversation with Mr. Gomo?
A. Yes sir, I have asked him about it several times.
STATEMENT OF L. H. STEPPS.
Q. Mr. Stepps what are your initials?
A. L. H.
Q. I have been informed that you have some information about some cruel treatment of colored employees out here?
A. Well, I have not seen any myself. I work in one room and I have'nt seen any in the room I work in.
Q. How many have you?
A. Anywhere from 20 to 25, 6, 7, or 8.
Q. Negroes?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know of anybody else who works and abuses colored employees?
A. Yes, I know others that works them.
Q. What about abusing them?
A. I don't know whether they abuse them or not.
Q. Have you had any information about it?
A. I have heard some talk but I don't know just what it was or where or how it occurred. Sometimes maybe a couple will fall out and have a scrap, a dispute between one another.
Q. Do you know whether the foremen that have them in charge beat them up with sticks?
A. I don't know.
Q. Have you heard that?
A. There has been some fellows that worked here that had some trouble some time ago but they are not here and have'nt worked here since the trouble. Had a falling out between themselves and one hit a darkey over the head, but I did'nt see it; that is the best that I can hear.
Q. You don't know how they were?
A. No, I don't remember the fellow's name that they said he hit.
Q. Do you know what negro it was got hit?
A. No, I don't remember his name, they all worked by numbers and I did'nt take much notice of names in the other room; you would'nt really know the names but just the numbers.
Q. You say the man who hit him is gone?
A. Yes sir, said to be. I have'nt seem him; did'nt really know him.
Q. Was he indicted about it?
A. Yes sir, he was indicted.
Q. Tried at Albemarle?
A. I suppose so.
Q. Before the County Court judge?
A. I reckon so.
Q. The man that hit him has been tried?
A. I suppose so, they carried him to Albemarle and put him in jail. That is what I was told.
Q. You have been informed of that?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know where the negro is?
A. No, I don't know where he is.
Q. Do you know whether this other white man ever worked here any more after that?
A. No, never worked any more.
By Mr. Brock to Mr. Smith: (R. L. Smith)
Well now, Mr. Smith, I would like to ask you if you and Mr. Thorpe if you have any information on the subject?
By Mr. Smith:
We have no information whatever. We can furnish you the facts about that negro being shot by the officer.
STATEMENT OF CHIEF T. A. EARLY
Q. What are your initials, Mr. Early?
A. T. A.
Q. Mr. Early you are chief of police over here?
A. Yes sir
Q. How long have you been?
A. Since the first of April last year.
Q. 1918?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know Phil Diggs?
A. Yes sir.
Q. It is reported that he was very seriously injured by three white men; can you tell us about that?
A. Yes sir.
Q. I wish you would give us that information?
A. He had been over here in the pot room one night about ten o'clock and three white men - well to give you the start it seems that they had had some dispute a day or two before this trouble ---
Q. The negro and the white men?
A. The negro and one white man, and this night of the real trouble one of the white men goes from one pot room to the other one where the negro works and gets him and brings him back to the room he went from, and this white man that he had the trouble with was over here in a passage way between the pot room with a carbon -----, if you know what that is, and as the negro walked out the man hit him in the back of the head and he was in the hospital about a week, unconscious.
Q. What became of the case?
A. Well sir, I arrested the three white men that night, or two of them, and took them to Albemarle and put them in jail and got sufficient evidence to justify me in arresting the third man and got him the next morning and took him and put him in jail and all three gave bond and went back home to Marysville, Tennessee, and when court convened, or the preliminary hearing, they sent Judge Brown over here to represent them or had the case continued and the case was compromised.
Q. Between Judge Brown and Judge Sikes, the judge of the County Court? Court?
A. Yes sir, they paid the negro $200.00 I think it was and the case was compromised.
Q. That was the agreement between the lawyers?
A. Yes sir.
Q. The prosecuting attorney of this County and counsel representing the defendants?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Judge Brown here is Judge of the County Court and Mr. Sikes is prosecuting attorney and they sent a Judge Brown from Marysville, Tennessee?
A. Yes sir.
Q. That was done in open court?
A. Yes sir.
Q. That is the record that was entered in open court?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now them, Mr. Early, the next matter I want to ask you about is this report about Officer Mabry's shooting a negro by the name of Big Will; do you know about that?
A. No sir, I don't.
Q. Has Mabry been here since?
A. Yes sir, he is still here. Well he is off on his vacation now.
Q. Has he shot anybody that you know of?
A. No sir, not to my knowledge.
Q. Do you know Big Will?
A. No sir, I don't.
Q. Can you tel me about this white boy being beaten up by Officer Ferris?
A. Yes sir, I can tell you the case you have reference to.
Q. What was the boy's name?
A. Sullivan, I think it was. Well, Mr. Ferris got him down here in the passenger station one evening about two o'clock drunk.
Q. How old was he?
A. 23 or 4, possible 25, and Mr. Ferris had considerable trouble and had to pick him up by main strenght and take him across to the building, and struck him once with his walking stick. He admitted it at the trial - the man plead guilty.
Q. Was Ferris the witness up there?
A. Yes sir.
Q. He was the officer who arrested him?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did Sullivan at that time make any complaint?
A. No sir, did not. Never went on the stand.
Q. Was the officer asked about hitting him?
A. He was.
Q. Was that in the County Court?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You say that boy's name was Sullivan?
A. Yes sir, he is here.
Q. Where does he work now?
A. In the pot room.
Q. Do you know Mr. G. C. Scott who is foreman of a brush machine?
A. No sir.
Q. Is there a Scott whi is foreman?
A. I don't know.
Q. Have you got a baking department in the carbon plant?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you get a report about some men, some of the employees, being knocked down and being beaten up by the foreman?
A. No sir, no report given to me of that kind.
Q. When these employees are beaten or hit by the officers or foremen, is the matter reported to you by them?
A. If it is anything that amounts to anything they usually report it to me. There may be some personal scraps that I never hear about.
Q. Do you know Mr. Spencer, a foreman in the coke crusher?
A. I know there is a fellow named Spencer who works there.
Q. Is he here now?
A. Why I don't know; I think he is.
Q. Do you remember the time he knocked a negro down with a sledge hammer handle?
A. No sir.
Q. Was it reported to you?
A. No sir.
Q. I wish you would investigate it and find out who the negro was?
A. All right sir, do you know what time it was?
Q. Sometime in the last six or eight months I think. Now Mr. Early it is charged that you and the officers lock up these employees at night in houses here so that they can't get out in case of fire. What about that?
A. It is not done. That is the first I ever heard of that.
Q. Do you lock up anybody?
A. No sir, we have got no where to lock up anybody.
Q. It is reported also that in gambling - that there was a case of gambling here a few nights ago and that about nine men were made to work an extra shift for gambling. What about that?
A. Well sir, I don't know about that. I know the other night - it was Saturday night I believe and on some occasions we have a short shift and have to go out and look up men to work on a shift. They have to have somany men to get along with, and quite often we find these men together in a house, sometimes eight, ten or a dozen, and it might be that they were gambling, possibly if we had waited long enough we might have been able to catch, but we go right in and of course everything is cleaned up, and possible we find a dozen men in there. If they were gambling when we get there it is all cleaned up, and and if the men are there we know who belongs on that shift and taken them and put them on the shift.
Q. What I want to find out is whether you make them work on the shift, or extra shift, as a matter of punishment?
A. No sir, we don't. We never look for them until we are short of men and lots of time we find them in a house, quite a number of them together, and in my own mind I have no doubt they are gambling.
Q. Do they get pay for every time they are put on a shift?
A. They do.
Q. No don't work them as punishment?
A. No sir, quite often, especially on pay day nights and evenings we have to get out and hunt men under those circumstances and we have to get them.
Q. Why did'nt you swear out a warrant for Holliday when he assaulted Jourdan?
A. I investigated that case and went so far as to find out it happened on the Montgomery - in Montgomery County, on the other side of the river, and it was out of my jurisdiction. I sent a man over there for the purpose of arresting the man and I went to the man myself and asked him to go to Troy and asked him to go over in the other county and swear out the warrant, I thought the man ought to be prosecuted and I told Jourdan so but he never did did.
Q. Do you remember hos much money he got?
A. I never knew of any being paid.
Q. They did'nt report that to you?
A. No sir, that is the first intimation I have had of it.
Mr. Smith have you gentlemen any further information? I would be glad to hear it.
By Mr. Smith:
These are all new charges to us. The only thing I know of is Mr. Mabry might answer for the charge of shooting that man.
Q. Mr. Early will you investigate that?
A. I think I know what you have reference to Mr. Brock. Mr. Mabry had a personal encounter with the negro and struck at him with his gun and in doing so the gun hit something and went off.
Q. He did'nt hit the negro?
A. I don't think he did.
Q. You don't know what the trouble was about?
A. I don't know what he got after the negro about; whether he would'nt work and the negro cursed him and so they had a little argument, and the watchman standing there told me he came an inch of shooting him himself; said he thought he was going to draw a knife.
Q. Did he say the negro tried to draw a knife?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did he make any statement about it?
A. No sir, I never talked to him about it at all. I found out from the other parties how it happened; Mr. Mabry did'nt deny striking at him with his gun.
Q. Mr. Early you give your officers here - they are all under you, I believe?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You give them such instructions as are given them?
A. Yes sir, when I am here.
Q. You have been here for the last two or three weeks?
A. I was away three weeks - up until the 28th I believe it was I came back.
Q. Who was in charge while you were away?
A. Mr. Mabry, I was on my vacation.
Q. Has any information been given to you or your police officers that there was any organization on the part of anybody to wait on Mr. Goble here?
A. No sir.
Q. Have you heard any intimation of that kind?
A. No sir.
